• Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu

Q: Papa Abraham Adesanya is dead. What is your reaction? A; It is a most unfortunate thing. But one way or the other, you have to come to the reality that death is inevitable though you don’t want that to happen to a well loved and respected nationalist, a champion of constitutional democracy, a reflection of honesty and integrity, with great value for truth. He was a man that you could rely upon at any given time if you’re very honest. His politics was very unique and rich. He was very analytical, very rich in wisdom; he was a great historian and had very deep knowledge of Nigerian politics and constitution, as a lawyer. He had a good history of Nigerian politics that you could benefit from. You could draw so much from his fountain of knowledge, and we’re going to miss all of that. Also, he taught character and was a symbol of that. He was an embodiment of courage. He would say there was nothing one could achieve on earth without serious courage. He would tell you the story of how he left this country for further studies. He would tell you instances where he disagreed with Chief Obafemi Awolowo of blessed memory and they had to debate issues to forge a common position at the end of the day. He would tell stories to illustrate a particular position or situation that was very, very dear to his heart.

And he was very, very tireless. If anything will be written about courage, honesty, integrity, faith in God, mankind and the nation, it has to be Pa Abraham Adesanya. He wanted an ideal country and the comfort and quality of life for the common man. He lived like a common man himself and lived among the common people. He was so modest when you consider the amount of time he had put in working for the country as a member of his state’s House of Assembly and a Senator of the Federal Republic. Although he was such an influential leader, you wouldn’t see any greed for wealth in him. Rather, he was always very concerned about others.

I have never seen any leader of his kind of quality and candour. He was full of energy. I remember instances during the struggle of NADECO after we returned from late Pa Ajasin’s home in Owo to analyse the course of action, from where we moved to the home of the late Alfred Rewane, another titan of democracy. Pa Adesanya would continue to repeat that evil will only thrive when honest men keep quiet.

Of course, we were itching for a fight and were almost getting to a stage of saying ‘tell us, go, we want to secede’. But he would draw you back for caution boldly. Talk of principles, he was a very, very courageous man.

Q: Did you have course at any time to disagree with him?

A: Thrice. I mean a number of times. He was a debater, perhaps he would debate with you. The joy of him was that he made you argue your case out. He was ready to listen to you and debate any given issue. I’ll give an instance. When we were in exile – myself, Pa Anthony Enahoro, Prof. Wole Soyinka and others – Pa Adesanya would call and consult deeply and widely. You could take issues with him on telephone and debate and argue with him the methods. When we were here in Nigeria, we were discussing the protests. Myself, Beko and others were not restrained in a way but he would tell you no, don’t. And we would say we disagree. Eventually, we reached a compromise and I said: ‘give me another method or give me another reason.’

While in exile there was the debate whether we should return or not and the debate whether he should meet Abdulsalami Abubakar when he took over and whether that process would compromise Abiola’s mandate. But Pa Adesanya said he would not be able to assess that until he meets with him and added that he (Abdulsalami) was not an Abacha kind of character. We disagreed but he said he would go anyway. But immediately he came back, he called us and told us of his assessment.

And we said: ‘O.K. Papa, what did you assess’? And he said, he could see a certain character sitting down there and he saw the reasonableness of the meeting. He then convinced us to equally accept that necessity for the meeting.

There was also another instance when we were to plan whether to come home and join the transition programme to democracy during the Abdulsalami Abubakar era. He was with us in Washington, USA to consult with us whether we should participate or not and we debated for two weeks, day in, day out. The group was polarised between those who were for and those who were against. Some of us said we could never trust the military and that the elections would be rigged again. Which party? Everybody was tainted and then they were looking for purists. I told him that, ‘Baba, with all your experience you remain a purist and we’re looking for people like you. But we can’t find many like you that will participate. You realise one thing, Sir, even if we refuse to participate, politicians will participate and they will occupy the place. It means, one way or the other, we would have surrendered to the political opportunists.’

Obviously, we may not necessarily share the same principles with him. And he thought over that and we said, O.K, we were going to look at the parties. And at a stage he had to decide whether we should form our own party or go along with APP then and he was busy consulting with Bola Ige frantically and talking to the rest who were in the US. At a stage he said people were not satisfied with the kind of characters and personalities in that party and we said: O.K, we’ll form our own party. And he said we should go ahead and that was how AD became our party then. But some group remained adamant and for almost three days we disagreed. And he was always full of ideas and he would listen again and again. So we came home and embraced AD. But the leadership in the South-West had gone for delegates selection as a form of choosing candidates; that is, electoral college.

So we walked up to him, I led the group that told him: ‘Papa, we disagree.’ He asked why and we said, ‘You’re a very honest and pure personality and if you want to continue the virtues of honesty and transparency in us, you must realise that the electoral college system where you choose delegates is a corrupt system and you cannot use it.’ He said that the people at the local government level and grassroots must participate actively in direct primaries to select those who will represent them. We argued but I said all the delegates that will emerge from the electoral college system would have been identified by those contesting one way or the other before the primaries and they would not be fully committed. And that is money politics and you’ll now start to buy or pay them for the voting and corruption would set in. At that stage, he said that is it: direct primaries. That is another instance where we disagreed and later agreed. He would always be ready to listen to those points of disagreement.

The degree of honesty in him was unimaginable. He wanted justice and he lived it fundamentally. During the 1999 gubernatorial primaries where we won but were being manipulated, the man stood firmly and said the result was done by the people and the sanctity must be reflected.

And it stood. He was a fair person when it came to justice.

Q: Don’t you think there’s a vacuum in the leadership of Yorubaland?

A: It depends on how you see a vacuum. The death of Pa Abraham Adesanya is a loss to our race. However, to say a vacuum will be insulting, honestly, because a leader is successful when he grooms other leaders. He has groomed a lot and it’s left for them to pursue that.

Q: Could you identify some of these people that were groomed?

A: I’m not going to do that. I’m not going to mention names. You have many capable and worthy Yorubas. Membership of Afenifere is very open and at any given time, leadership will emerge by consensus.

Must the Yoruba leader to come emerge from the rank of politicians?

Not necessarily. A retired judge could be it. We have Justice Esho, Justice Ayoola and many men of honour and integrity in this country. It doesn’t have to be among the politicians. But can you exist without politics? Can the life of a people flourish and not be shaped by politics? It’s not possible. Even your profession, journalism will be meaningless without politics. The promises emanating from political environments and actions will affect medical practitioners, farmers, financial institutions, the judiciary, other professionals and their children. They are all going to live in a nation governed by politics and politicians. So you will expect political leaning to be the tendency that will be true of the Yoruba leadership.

Some people say you stand up against a rival party’s plot to impose itself on the South-West because you want to be the Yoruba leader. They say you’re trying to impose yourself on the Yoruba people as their leader. How do you respond to this?

I don’t respond to foolish analysis. I say it is foolish and senseless. If they can read my mind; if they can sit in their room or offices and predict what my future will be or what my intentions are, I say they’re not as smart as they pretend or appear to be. I’m still young, as far as I’m concerned, at 56 and I’m not striving or struggling to be a Yoruba leader. I’m a nationalist and democrat and I follow what I believe. I would have fought for positions before, when I was in the Senate. I had the opportunity of becoming the Senate president. That is the truth and those my colleagues know that. But I gave it up so that a Yoruba man will be nominated for the President, or vice president, that was between Falae and MKO Abiola then. Because they told me the South-West cannot take the Senate president and the President slots. And I went along. I’m not an overly ambitious or desperate person who will change their character overnight because they want to lead or pretend to be. I’m not that kind of person. I have antecedents that you can review and evaluate politically in this country. I’m not just an overnight democrat.

Q: But frankly, a lot of people seem to see you as a potential inheritor of the stool vacated by Pa Adesanya. Should you be invited, will you consider taking it up?

A: I don’t want to work on those hypotheses. I want to work on me as Bola Ahmed Tinubu. What I believe is that I learnt from the man. What is missing now, what do we need for the growth of our people, what is the meaning of patriotism and how patriotic can we be in a global place, not from the narrow prism of wanting to be Yoruba leader. I’m a politician and I want to be a total politician.

Q: Away from politics, you seem to have added weight now. How are you enjoying post-governorship life?

A: Oh! very much and more relaxed. I’m still a politician and still very effectively involved in politics. I can sleep whenever I choose to, and in many more instances than ever before.